Comments on: Real Men Don’t Do Church – Part Four http://www.cvmen.org.uk/blog/2009/08/real-men-dont-do-church-part-four/ Connecting Men to Jesus and the Church to Men Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:54:35 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Ed Kendall http://www.cvmen.org.uk/blog/2009/08/real-men-dont-do-church-part-four/comment-page-1/#comment-177 Ed Kendall Fri, 12 Feb 2010 14:42:53 +0000 http://www.cvmen.org.uk/blog/?p=53#comment-177 Excellent, glad to see this debated, especially the Kingdom v Church thing. I think it's a mistake to limit this to men, though it is logical to start with us. Gender boundaries and roles have changed enormously over the last century, and just as there are men quite comfortable in an effeminate role in the church, there are women uncomfortable with the atmosphere inside churches. The language we use is a major issue for me and others I know. With language, lines are (I hope unintentionally) drawn between those 'inside' church and those 'outside'. It's the marker of what level of [evangelical] Christianity you have attained. Worst of all, it can even exclude people without either party realising it. I think I'd prefer it if we swore instead. Offence caused by that is at least out in the open. I like that this website seems good in this respect, but I can't understand why a guy'd need to be "released"? I've heard it before, but I don't know what it means? Is it a spiritual version of "asked" whereby they can't refuse? ;) Excellent, glad to see this debated, especially the Kingdom v Church thing.

I think it’s a mistake to limit this to men, though it is logical to start with us. Gender boundaries and roles have changed enormously over the last century, and just as there are men quite comfortable in an effeminate role in the church, there are women uncomfortable with the atmosphere inside churches.

The language we use is a major issue for me and others I know. With language, lines are (I hope unintentionally) drawn between those ‘inside’ church and those ‘outside’. It’s the marker of what level of [evangelical] Christianity you have attained. Worst of all, it can even exclude people without either party realising it. I think I’d prefer it if we swore instead. Offence caused by that is at least out in the open. I like that this website seems good in this respect, but I can’t understand why a guy’d need to be “released”? I’ve heard it before, but I don’t know what it means? Is it a spiritual version of “asked” whereby they can’t refuse? ;)

]]> By: Michael Melville http://www.cvmen.org.uk/blog/2009/08/real-men-dont-do-church-part-four/comment-page-1/#comment-62 Michael Melville Wed, 09 Sep 2009 13:39:16 +0000 http://www.cvmen.org.uk/blog/?p=53#comment-62 Steve - just along shot - do you have parentage in Cornwall? Thanks for the encouragement - one sometimes feels very isolated in these matters but there are thousands of believers longing for and looking for the reality of The True Church as purchased at Calvary and birthed at Pentecost. The problem is they are finding it hard to break out of the boats of denominational bondage and walk on water to Jesus alone. The sad part is most do not realise the bondage to man they have submitted themselves to.Big subject and here is probably not the place. Steve – just along shot – do you have parentage in Cornwall?
Thanks for the encouragement – one sometimes feels very isolated in these matters but there are thousands of believers longing for and looking for the reality of The True Church as purchased at Calvary and birthed at Pentecost. The problem is they are finding it hard to break out of the boats of denominational bondage and walk on water to Jesus alone. The sad part is most do not realise the bondage to man they have submitted themselves to.Big subject and here is probably not the place.

]]> By: Steve Double http://www.cvmen.org.uk/blog/2009/08/real-men-dont-do-church-part-four/comment-page-1/#comment-50 Steve Double Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:02:02 +0000 http://www.cvmen.org.uk/blog/?p=53#comment-50 Michael - you and I seem to be reading from the same page - brilliant loved it all, spot on, here here, amen and anything else that means I agree completely! Michael – you and I seem to be reading from the same page – brilliant loved it all, spot on, here here, amen and anything else that means I agree completely!

]]> By: Carl beech http://www.cvmen.org.uk/blog/2009/08/real-men-dont-do-church-part-four/comment-page-1/#comment-45 Carl beech Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:40:57 +0000 http://www.cvmen.org.uk/blog/?p=53#comment-45 Watch this space for comments on church v kingdom! Keep the conversation alive.. We haven't yet discussed what we believe to be a kingdom expression of church...ie living in kingdom/Jesus centred community, but we will be exploring this. Watch this space for comments on church v kingdom! Keep the conversation alive..
We haven’t yet discussed what we believe to be a kingdom expression of church…ie living in kingdom/Jesus centred community, but we will be exploring this.

]]> By: Michael Melville http://www.cvmen.org.uk/blog/2009/08/real-men-dont-do-church-part-four/comment-page-1/#comment-44 Michael Melville Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:18:39 +0000 http://www.cvmen.org.uk/blog/?p=53#comment-44 I am not a ‘blogger’ in fact this is probably the first one I have seen or used. However there seems to be two main issues here. 1 Wanting to see men saved and 2 Wanting to see men going to ‘church’. 1.We just have to allow The Holy Spirit to ‘renew our minds’ concerning our now total misunderstanding of the meaning of the word ‘church’. Jesus never sought, nor his disciples, to get people into ‘church’ as meant by the word today. The Biblical use of the word ‘Church’ means something far different from what it means today. We need to see people being saved into ‘The Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ’ - from Satan’s kingdom of darkness into The Saviour’s Kingdom of light – not ‘going to ‘church’’. It is however, more on the second point that I wish to dwell. 2. Thousands of believers from around the world are leaving the man-made systems and organisations that we today call ‘church’. Until we begin to understand that as believers we cannot ‘GO’ to church because we ARE the ‘Church’ [ note capital ‘C’] we will never break free from the unbiblical chains of what ‘church’ has become. We are so far from the Scriptural revelation of what being ‘Church’ really IS, that we have become blind to the deceptions of what man has made ‘church’ to become. There are those who love The Lord, often quite passionately, but who now see the far cry of what ‘church’ has become and who are made to feel guilty because they don’t cross the threshold of some ecclesiastical looking building on a Sunday morning. ‘Real men don’t go to church’ is not the issue – ‘Real Christians don’t GO to church’ is more to the point. We HAVE to get out of our little denominational boxes and start walking on the water to Jesus only and away from the boats of our own making. ‘c’hurch’ has become the idol that we now worship bringing millions upon millions of our hard earnt pounds and laying them on the altar of bricks and mortar and administrational ecclesiastical hierarchy that finds no place in Holy Writ. Run like any good business churchs have become mammon centred with ever ingenious methods of intrigue to get in ‘more’ people, ‘more’ money, ‘more’ recognition, bigger, better, faster, wider, fatter, and all the time the true worshipper is left cold and unfulfilled and empty because there is no bread on the altar of Presence. What is needed is a transformation of our understanding of what it means to live in the liberty of Christ’s Kingdom, from decades of unbiblical indoctrination about how we should ‘go to church’ and become ‘members’ of man-made denominations. In Glory there will not be one single denomination – why then do we fight and strive to hang on to them so tenaciously down here!! We are supposed to be getting ready for The Groom, not building our own little empires! Wake up Bride The King is on the way. I am not a ‘blogger’ in fact this is probably the first one I have seen or used. However there seems to be two main issues here. 1 Wanting to see men saved and 2 Wanting to see men going to ‘church’.
1.We just have to allow The Holy Spirit to ‘renew our minds’ concerning our now total misunderstanding of the meaning of the word ‘church’. Jesus never sought, nor his disciples, to get people into ‘church’ as meant by the word today. The Biblical use of the word ‘Church’ means something far different from what it means today. We need to see people being saved into ‘The Kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ’ – from Satan’s kingdom of darkness into The Saviour’s Kingdom of light – not ‘going to ‘church’’.
It is however, more on the second point that I wish to dwell.
2. Thousands of believers from around the world are leaving the man-made systems and organisations that we today call ‘church’. Until we begin to understand that as believers we cannot ‘GO’ to church because we ARE the ‘Church’ [ note capital ‘C’] we will never break free from the unbiblical chains of what ‘church’ has become.
We are so far from the Scriptural revelation of what being ‘Church’ really IS, that we have become blind to the deceptions of what man has made ‘church’ to become. There are those who love The Lord, often quite passionately, but who now see the far cry of what ‘church’ has become and who are made to feel guilty because they don’t cross the threshold of some ecclesiastical looking building on a Sunday morning.
‘Real men don’t go to church’ is not the issue – ‘Real Christians don’t GO to church’ is more to the point. We HAVE to get out of our little denominational boxes and start walking on the water to Jesus only and away from the boats of our own making.
‘c’hurch’ has become the idol that we now worship bringing millions upon millions of our hard earnt pounds and laying them on the altar of bricks and mortar and administrational ecclesiastical hierarchy that finds no place in Holy Writ. Run like any good business churchs have become mammon centred with ever ingenious methods of intrigue to get in ‘more’ people, ‘more’ money, ‘more’ recognition, bigger, better, faster, wider, fatter, and all the time the true worshipper is left cold and unfulfilled and empty because there is no bread on the altar of Presence.
What is needed is a transformation of our understanding of what it means to live in the liberty of Christ’s Kingdom, from decades of unbiblical indoctrination about how we should ‘go to church’ and become ‘members’ of man-made denominations.
In Glory there will not be one single denomination – why then do we fight and strive to hang on to them so tenaciously down here!! We are supposed to be getting ready for The Groom, not building our own little empires!
Wake up Bride The King is on the way.

]]> By: edgarthedolphin http://www.cvmen.org.uk/blog/2009/08/real-men-dont-do-church-part-four/comment-page-1/#comment-25 edgarthedolphin Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:10:05 +0000 http://www.cvmen.org.uk/blog/?p=53#comment-25 yes Barry, sounds good yes Barry, sounds good

]]> By: Barry http://www.cvmen.org.uk/blog/2009/08/real-men-dont-do-church-part-four/comment-page-1/#comment-22 Barry Sun, 16 Aug 2009 00:00:17 +0000 http://www.cvmen.org.uk/blog/?p=53#comment-22 I think part of the problem as well is that the church always seems to come across as having a "We have all the answers, you have none of them" mentality, which turns a lot of men off. A bit more humility does wonders, as does recognition that although the church has some answers about important issues, it doesn't have a monopoly on truth, answers, morality or good ideas. (LIke Edgarthedolphin, I'm a church drop-out and can't face the thought of going back, though I'm still a believer.) I think part of the problem as well is that the church always seems to come across as having a “We have all the answers, you have none of them” mentality, which turns a lot of men off. A bit more humility does wonders, as does recognition that although the church has some answers about important issues, it doesn’t have a monopoly on truth, answers, morality or good ideas.

(LIke Edgarthedolphin, I’m a church drop-out and can’t face the thought of going back, though I’m still a believer.)

]]> By: Carl Beech http://www.cvmen.org.uk/blog/2009/08/real-men-dont-do-church-part-four/comment-page-1/#comment-21 Carl Beech Sat, 15 Aug 2009 07:44:18 +0000 http://www.cvmen.org.uk/blog/?p=53#comment-21 No you arent unusual. Im about t write much more about this in the coming months. Stay tuned. Im barely scratching the surface of the issues in this particular blog which is aimed at pursuing issues in bite sized chunks. No you arent unusual. Im about t write much more about this in the coming months. Stay tuned. Im barely scratching the surface of the issues in this particular blog which is aimed at pursuing issues in bite sized chunks.

]]> By: edgarthedolphin http://www.cvmen.org.uk/blog/2009/08/real-men-dont-do-church-part-four/comment-page-1/#comment-20 edgarthedolphin Sat, 15 Aug 2009 07:13:39 +0000 http://www.cvmen.org.uk/blog/?p=53#comment-20 personally i found that over 25 years church just wore me down to the point i cannot bear to go any longer. i dont think i'm hugely unusual in that. i'm not sure your "some things to consider: for believing men" really cuts the mustard. personally i found that over 25 years church just wore me down to the point i cannot bear to go any longer. i dont think i’m hugely unusual in that. i’m not sure your “some things to consider: for believing men” really cuts the mustard.

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